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	<title>Brewer Paradise Lost &#187; bret lawrie</title>
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		<title>Pitching + Deadline Redux</title>
		<link>http://www.brewerparadiselost.com/archives/400</link>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 02:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
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				<category><![CDATA[Brewer stuff]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[milwaukee brewers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[minnesota twins]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[music]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[personal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[alcides escobar]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bret lawrie]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[c.c. sabathia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[doug davis]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[j.j. hardy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[j.p. ricciardi]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ken macha]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ken rosenthal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lorenzo cain]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[manny]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[matt laporta]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[parra]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[roy halladay]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[todd coffey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[trade talks]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Manny Parra made his first start today after a four-start stint in AAA where he did pretty darn well compared to his big league disaster. His peripherals aren&#8217;t quite there yet (19K, 13BB, 24 2/3 innings pitched), but he did a good job of keeping the ball in the park and on the ground. He&#8217;s [...]]]></description>
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<p><b>Manny Parra</b> made his first start today after a four-start stint in AAA where he did pretty darn well compared to his big league disaster. His peripherals aren&#8217;t quite there yet (19K, 13BB, 24 2/3 innings pitched), but he did a good job of keeping the ball in the park and on the ground. He&#8217;s appeared to regain at least some confidence and with the rotation in flux as it is it&#8217;s time to bring him back.</p>
<p>He decided to perform admirably, to the tune of 7 shutout innings. He hardly had any jams and used the sun to his advantage (<b>Todd Coffey</b>, however, did not). He threw a ton of strikes after complaining about not having the confidence to throw any of his pitches for strikes and got ahead of hitters better than I&#8217;ve seen him do all season long.</p>
<p>With him coming back and hopefully being a solid rotation piece, should the Brewers still trade for another starting pitcher to last them through the rest of the season?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.czwief.com/blog/?p=388">I wrote on Monday</a> about the current state of the pitching market and why it makes sense for the Brewers to just stand pat where they are, with regards to <b>Doug Davis</b>. Now, all of a sudden, <b>J.P. Ricciardi</b> says <b>Roy Halladay</b> is available for trade and all of a sudden everbody&#8217;s nuts for Halladay! FOX Sports&#8217; own Boras-mouthpiece <b>Ken Rosenthal</b> said in his article that <a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9777314/Jays%27-Halladay-all-but-gone-in-Toronto">Halladay is &#8216;all but gone&#8217;</a> in Toronto. Whoo, how exciting! Maybe the Brewers will finally add that pitching piece they so desperately need.</p>
<p>But wait! There&#8217;s more. Here&#8217;s what Toronto&#8217;s GM Ricciardi had to say about Halladay just yesterday:</p>
<blockquote><p>It would take a lot for us to part with him. We&#8217;ve gotten a lot of calls from teams but none of them are telling us at this point what they&#8217;re willing to give up. If you&#8217;re coming at us with a &#8216;B&#8221; list of young players, don&#8217;t bother. This is one of the five best players in baseball. It&#8217;s going to take a significant package of players for us to even listen. So as the teams call we&#8217;ll go through the ones we feel are the serious ones and then we&#8217;ll start scouting their farm systems to see if there&#8217;s anything we can do.”</p>
<p>“My gut feeling is no we won&#8217;t [make a deal] because there aren&#8217;t too many teams out there who are willing to give us the significant package of prospects we would need to make this go. Teams protect their prospects.</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words Ricciardi said that a player even as good as Halladay is available but it&#8217;s going to take a mountain of candy to sweeten the deal enough for them. This suspiciously sounds like the media is trying to create a story out of nothing.</p>
<p>Of course now that Halladay&#8217;s been brought up, the media <b><i>has</b></i> successfully made something out of nothing. <a href="http://www.brewcrewball.com/2009/7/7/941500/rumorville-roy-halladay">The internet</a> <a href="http://www.millerparkdrunk.com/baseball/we-make-the-case-to-roy-halladay/">is abuzz</a> <a href="http://wisconsinsportsblogs.blogspot.com/2009/07/unofficial-chuckie-hacks-poll-halladay.html">with Halladay rumors</a>. The problem with all this new trade talking is that the media has successfully created a story when there might not be one. No more complaining about how much attention <b>Brett Favre&#8217;s</b> gotten!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/roy-halladays-trade-value">Here</a> is a pretty interesting article about Halladay&#8217;s current trade value with what he should get on the market. Here&#8217;s some of the more important points:</p>
<blockquote><p>First off, let’s look at Halladay’s win values over the years. Since 2002, he’s been worth about 46 wins in 1,585 innings, or right around an average of six wins per year. He’s on pace for about a seven win season this year, and he shows no signs of slowing down. Going forward, ZIPS projects a 3.21 FIP and 106 innings in his remaining 15 starts this year, which would be worth another 3.5 wins. Halladay is a +6 to +7 win pitcher, easily the best in baseball.</p>
<p>The market value for wins took a tumble on the low end last year, but at the high end, teams were still willing to pay around $5 million per win for premium free agents. Based on that, we’d say that Halladay’s fair market value is something like $30 to $35 million per season. However, those $5 million per win contracts were all long term deals, which carry extra risk to the organization and therefore pull down the annual average value that teams are willing to pay. <b>With only a 15 month commitment, the long term risk with Halladay is substantially lower, and teams should (and will) pay a premium for that risk avoidance.</b></p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p><b>But, you can’t forget about the fact that he’s very likely to be a Type A free agent at the end of 2010, and the acquiring team would be able to recoup two quality draft choices if they didn’t re-sign him as a free agent.</b> Thanks to some good work by Victor Wang, we can see that the value of Halladay’s Type A status is around $8 million or so.</p>
<p>$52 million for Halladay’s performance + $8 million for the draft picks = $60 million in total value. He will be paid $22 million over that time frame, so 60-22 = $38 million.</p>
<p><b>To acquire the Jays ace, teams should be expected to surrender something like $40 million in value. </b></p>
<p>What does $40 million in value look like? Something like three terrific prospects who are not that far from the majors. No one’s giving up players from the Matt Wieters/David Price mold, but it’s going to take several players from that second prospect tier, the top 25-50 type guys.</p></blockquote>
<p>So in order to obtain Halladay the Brewers would be looking at shipping away <b>J.J. Hardy</b> or <b>Alcides Escobar</b>, <b>Lorenzo Cain</b>, and <b>Bret Lawrie</b>, at the very least. Does that sound worth it to you?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not the biggest fan of disarming the entire farm system to set the franchise back multiple years just to gain an extra win or two for 2009. The really nice thing about last year&#8217;s <b>C.C. Sabathia</b> trade was that it didn&#8217;t handicap the franchise for the upcoming years; <b>Matt LaPorta</b> was blocked and the other prospects involved weren&#8217;t exactly the major-league-ready types. If the Brewers were to give up $40 million for Roy Halladay&#8230;that would destroy the franchise. $40 million is almost half of the Brewers&#8217; current salary.</p>
<p>It would be different if Halladay was sour grapes about his time in Toronto and the Blue Jays were looking to get what they could for him. However it sounds like Halladay is happy in Toronto and Ricciardi is just as happy keeping him there. In other words, he&#8217;s not going to take pennis on the dollar for Halladay. $40 million in talent seems about right.</p>
<p>It just doesn&#8217;t make sense to trade away the farm system &#8212; or anyone, for that matter &#8212; with the rotation the Brewers have at the beginning of the year. Parra&#8217;s only slightly broken (and hopefully is back for good) and when Bush comes back the rotation will be back to where it was at the beginning of the year and in May when the Brewers were the best team in the major leagues. Overpaying for Halladay or Javier Vazquez isn&#8217;t going to be the answer. It&#8217;s just not going to be worth it.</p>
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